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Very Little Helps => Distribution Warehouse => Topic started by: Nomad on 15-04-18, 05:16PM

Title: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Nomad on 15-04-18, 05:16PM
Staff at Tesco’s Dagenham distribution centre in Rainham vote ‘overwhelmingly’ to strike (http://www.barkinganddagenhampost.co.uk/news/business/staff-from-dagenham-tesco-distribution-centre-in-rainham-vote-to-strike-1-5476036)

Quote
Members of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers (Usdaw) at the centre in Consul Avenue, Rainham, voted by 70 per cent, on a turnout of 63pc, to strike after both sides failed to agree an acceptable pay deal.

The most recent offer – rejected by union members – was worth less than 3pc over 12 months, according to Usdaw.


a Tesco spokesman said: “We are very disappointed the union committee representing our Dagenham site has decided to move towards industrial action............"

Somebody should tell the spokesman that it was the union members who moved towards industrial action, the union does (or should) follow the members bidding.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: strebor on 15-04-18, 05:30PM
Well done take my hat off to you all  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: notsofunny on 15-04-18, 05:49PM

Great going ,  :thumbup:

Any ideas on how many staff Tesco employ at this site directly ?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: tiptop on 15-04-18, 08:12PM
with this news i would think this years pay negs are going too be very interesting indeed and am sure tesco's bean counters are flapping big time AND tesco's big wigs must be putting huge pressure on the usdaw big wigs too get this too go away interesting times indeed.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 15-04-18, 08:29PM
Very irresponsible of Dagneham to do this, pushing for a larger rise will only have a knock-on effect on the money available to the company, won't it? This Dagenham money has to come from somewhere, don't it?

And wouldn't this mean much less money for those in stores, especially as we are going through an equal pay (in comparison to warehouse workers) issue at the moment?

in fact wouldn't this cause job losses else where if Dagenham were to continue this action, say-it-aint-so?

 ;)

I think Dagenham should grow-a-pair and settle for what they are given, very greedy and ungrateful if you ask me.

OR maybe the fact that most of you are men, makes all of the difference; gotta-keep-the-little-women-down-now-haven't-we. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Equalizer87 on 15-04-18, 08:36PM
Well done Dagenham  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

This is real action and proof of how Distribution  are fortunate to have this ability. USDAW and the stores should do the right thing and tear up the Partnership  Agreement.

But it may have to be the Distribution that delivers the message.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: RubyRed on 15-04-18, 09:40PM
Optout, couldn’t agree more. The money for any increase will have to come from somewhere. I’m sure the people saying well done have either not considered that or are the bitter people who no longer work for Tesco but like to hang onto the past!
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Itiswhatitis on 15-04-18, 10:02PM
Optout and ruby red, they have vacancies at Dagenham, but the pays not very good.  :D :D
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Retrokid on 15-04-18, 10:10PM
Dagenham Dc are probably on a lot more money than other Dcs that have already settled pay rises. Dagenham knew the pay rate when they took the job in the first place. Sheer greed. If staff don't like it they are free to leave and take a role with another company. No wonder Fords left Dagenham.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Teddybonkers on 15-04-18, 10:59PM
Optout, couldn’t agree more. The money for any increase will have to come from somewhere. I’m sure the people saying well done have either not considered that or are the bitter people who no longer work for Tesco but like to hang onto the past!

So Tesco have just recorded over £1b profit and can't afford a decent pay rise. Shame on you RubyRed - you're priorities are way off the mark.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 15-04-18, 11:55PM
Very irresponsible of stores to do this, pushing for a larger rise will only have a knock-on effect on the money available to the company, won't it? This stores money has to come from somewhere, don't it?

And wouldn't this mean much less money for those in everywhere, especially as we are going through an equal pay (in comparison to warehouse workers) issue at the moment?

in fact wouldn't this cause job losses everywhere where to continue this action, say-it-aint-so?


 ;)

I think stores should grow-a-pair and settle for what they are given, very greedy and ungrateful if you ask me.


If anything this twisted logic can be used to show why everyone should abandon the equal pay business.



Quote from: optout
OR maybe the fact that most of you are men, makes all of the difference; gotta-keep-the-little-women-down-now-haven't-we. :thumbup:

As for this, 2 USDAW national officers in regards to pay for Tesco are Pauline Foulkes and Joanne McGuinness, as you may suspect they are both female.

And for stores, pay review decisions involve national forum representatives, and decisions are then voted on by 12 of them.

they are listed as follows.

Peter Robson male
Mervyn Sterry male
Ian Scott male
Sandra Davies female
Michelle pr*tchett female
Christine Belton female
Jane Rowley female
Paula Croydon female
Lynn Tarris female
Kimberley Wright female
Crystal Macangus female
Janes Jones female
Lisa Charlish female
Sonia Mellett female
Jan Jervis female
Grania Lavery female
Lee Clark male
Jenny Porter female
Dave Sawyers male
Steve Newman male
Dan Barres male
Vicky Townsend female
Tracey Godden female
Janise Corfield female
Michael Smith male
Lisa Stewart female
Tricia Elder female
Kathryn (Kate) Hill female
Teresa Passmore female
Elizabeth Shields female
Dave Hampton male
Gill Morley female
Yvonne Corbett female
Julia Venables female
Heidi Herlihy female
Sarah Davies female

So thats 27 out of 36 being female, seems pretty lopsided to me, damn sexism. 
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Pochin123 on 16-04-18, 12:43AM
Very well done Dagenham, wish my dc had the ball's to strike, all mouths and big I AM till the vote then the backbone suddenly disappears.  >:D >:D
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: lackofinterest on 16-04-18, 01:51AM
good on ya dagenham. shame us in stores have to accept what we're given!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Hammer10 on 16-04-18, 02:20AM
Good luck to them wish our lot would have done the same maybe I would be better of now instead going to be another 70 pounds a month less soon due to cut in premium.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: FunkSoulBrother on 16-04-18, 07:30AM
That some good news, Dagenham! And Teddybonkers, you spoke the word! Now talk will start that Dagenham is self-fish, same old blabla and divide-and-rule. Some questions for any industrial action beyond the token one-hour walk-out that come to mind: how much of a rank-and-final decision is it to actually take industrial action and how much does the final say depend on the higher levels of the union (who might pull the plug)? how many members are there in relation to entire workforce, how many temps etc. who might carry on working (how could they be convinced not to)? could Tesco management use other DCs in the area to pick up work from Dagenham short-term, e.g. dot.com Enfield? what about the drivers, are they part of the dispute?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: redcar renegade on 16-04-18, 08:06AM
Wow and there was the membership of Usdaw thinking that Tesco ran the union.we at Middlesbrough fully support Dagenham members right to strike.lets see what top of union react to been told what to do by the membership.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 16-04-18, 09:38AM
As long as the “Numbers” meet the New legislation implemented last year, then the N.O’s have to run with the majority decision.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Nomad on 16-04-18, 01:56PM
It's strange how some people complain or condemn when the working man adopts the ethos of the majority of business men/women, which is:

"Get as much as you can and if it effects others, tough."
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: RubyRed on 16-04-18, 06:16PM
Teddybonkers, I have no shame at all. It’s my opinion. Tesco May have made a huge profit but they can’t put it all into pay. There was a time when people would have been happy with 3%. I think performance related increases should be for all not just managers. People shouldn’t be entitled to a pay rise just for being employed.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 16-04-18, 06:32PM
And people wonder why USDAW are so toothless...
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: tescopleb on 16-04-18, 07:02PM
Agreed Alfred, good grief even the daily mail wouldnt come up with that one and that's from one of our own. What chance do we have. And let's not forget they CAN afford to pay a living wage, they just don't want to.  The comment about performance pay suggests Rubyred is a relative newbie cos anybody with any experience knows why that is such a bad idea.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Rigger on 16-04-18, 07:46PM
Goodluck Dagenham & fair play to you, I voted to reject our pay deal at DC I’m in but it got voted through anyway, take no notice of people like optout  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 08:19PM
just a Hypocrisy net, hoping to catch a few tiddlers for tea >:D

Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 16-04-18, 08:27PM
More like a false equivalence. 
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 08:43PM
@alf

part of one of your responses from the Leigh/Day equal pay thread

'But I wouldn't be so sure about retail being any better if this goes through, those massive payroll increases will need to come from somewhere.'

I think i've caught me a tiddler, and just in time for supper.

I know another way to solve the equal pay problem would be a 'freeze on pay for those who are being paid more'. Just until those in stores have caught up. So what do ya say @alf? What do ya say Dagenham?


Although a thought has just occurred to me, the bigger the gap in pay between the highest and the lowest, the more tesco will have to pay out, I think if this Dagenham pay increase thing works then that would really cripple this hard done by company. So fair play to ya @alf, I think I can see where your coming from now, nice one comrade. ;)
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 16-04-18, 09:29PM
As I said false equivalence.

In pure monetary costs,
Dagenham size is roughly 1000 (from a quick google, so could be incorrect)
Tesco GA size is more difficult to estimate, but considering their total staff  in the UK is 300,000, you can safely estimate the total number of GA's is massive compared to the number at Dagenham.

So, the impact on the company on paying out a percentage increase for a tiny proportion of staff is insignificant, compared to a significant pay increase combined with potential payouts for what would easily be over 100,000 GA's.

In essence you're trying to equate Dagenham's strike action to the equal pay claim, that fails to be seen, as Dagenham is perusing their pay increase through established channels i.e. union action. Tesco stores already received their pay rise through their established channels i.e. those apparently sexist, female dominated forum representatives, who are part of the pay review committee.


As for a pay freeze, that's essentially a pay cut when cost of living increase is accounted for.

Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 10:00PM
I suggest you check out my last paragraph, as to the 'trifling' ramifications of a Dagenham pay increase. If it is passed, and the equality case is successful, then I hardly think that the successful litigants will be looking to the nearest pay strata for comparison.

The effect of any increase at Dagenham will be magnified at-least 100,000 times. This of course (according to contrary commentators on the Leigh/Day thread) would have a massive impact on the company and according to said commentators 'just wouldn't do'.

So please Dagenham workers consider your actions and the effects on the future of tesco. If tesco goes, where will our children work! So please, for the children! I beg you! Call off this silly greedy action for the good of the majority of tesco workers, you know it makes sense. :(

Oh and stores are pursuing their claim through even more established channels. I think the court system predates unions by a few years, although I may be wrong.
 
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 16-04-18, 10:22PM
If

You're jumping the gun.

And your comparison to courts and union is misguided, Voted for ballot action is a legally recognised course of action, through a legally recognised union, hence my established comment.

Courts are obviously legally recognised/established, but they are yet to decide on the merit of this court action, hence your jumping of the gun.

If this case wins, your hypocrisy claims will have more merit, until that time if it so happens, you are merely throwing disingenuous arguments after more disingenuous arguments.



Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 10:47PM
@alf

'IF'

You are right, there have never ever ever ever been any financial or business decisions based on IF have there? Every financial or business decision has in this alternative universe always been based on what is definitely going to happen.  I bow to you, I am the subservient one in this discussion, I am a mere crumb in comparison to your 'whole biscuit'.

Okay, a compromise

How about Dagenham call off the strike and put up with their pathetic pay and conditions until the legal action has run its course and failed. We have to be certain that it is going to fail after-all ....don't we. Then in a few years time when the court case and its appeals are lost, then Dagenham can pursue their pay increase, with the contented knowledge that their beloved tesco cash cow and the stores that lay the golden dregs, will be safe from harm.

Of course (unless you are insider trading) business and financial decisions are all based on IF.

And they all lived happily ever after. :)
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 16-04-18, 11:13PM
Don't know why you feel the need to arsey, it's a simple fact that the case hasn't been won yet.

Frankly I don't even understand the relevance of bringing up the court case, as regardless of it's merit i.e. whether it passes or fails, has no impact on the legitimacy of Dagenham's strike actions.

which makes all your snide remarks and outright attacks even worse.

Dagenham are looking for the best offer they can receive through their union, just like stores look for their best offer through their union. It is not Dagenham's  fault that stores do not have balloting powers, so why would (or should) they suffer due to a poor decision made by stores 20 odd years ago.

Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 17-04-18, 12:06AM
stores no longer need balloting powers. We have the courts to turn to.

legitimacy of claims??? that is not what we are discussing.

We are discussing (and i'll put this in capitals so that you can grasp the argument) THE IMPACT OF THOSE CLAIMS (INCLUDING DAGENHAMS CLAIM FOR MORE PAY) BEING SUCCESSFUL. just as you yourself were CONSIDERING THE IMPACT OF THE CLAIM in the Leigh/Day thread not long ago. AND FOR SIMPLIFICATION THE OUTCOMES OF BOTH CLAIMS ARE 'IFS'.

These were your arguments long before they just became mine, so if I am being 'arsey' what were you being? I am trying to learn from your arguments and yet you put me down for using them.

It seems that your own arguments and logic are only valid when you decide that they are?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 17-04-18, 01:31AM
Jesus dude calm down.

If you want to simply address impact, so be it.

but I already addressed it, if you're comparing this strike action to the equal claims in pure monetary terms i.e. impact, there is no comparison.
A small (they refused 3% but in reality they won't get much more I suspect) percentage increase for a 1000 odd DC staff isn't going to hurt Tesco, at least no where near as  100,000 (again a rough estimate) receiving a multiple pound increase, on-top of a payout.

Essentially the impact of whatever pay increase Dagenham eventually get doesn't compare in the slightest to the cost of this court case, quotes of £4bn in regards to the case, though I think that's optimistic on Leigh days part, but even a fraction of that is a massive amount.

That's the context of my statement you quoted, I wasn't debating the merit of the case(not in that particular quote any ways), just the potential impact it may have, you are free to disagree with the statement, as it is clearly just my opinion.

Note, If you're  trying to claim any Dagenham pay increase will affect the equal pay case if it were successful i.e. Tesco will need to "match" the difference between pay rates from stores to Dagenham.
I suspect that is misguided, though I don't proclaim that as fact (maybe someone with more knowledge can confirm), but as far as I am aware with Dagenham being a relatively new DC, they aren't on the most money, it would be the older workers in the older DC's on older contracts.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 17-04-18, 01:37AM
your last paragraph gets more to the crux of the issue.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 17-04-18, 11:07AM
Indeed a most recent DC on the latest Contract, staff on less money than older DC's.

So you are talking about the two issues, Strike Action and Equal pay claim and the knock on effect.

Is there a relative comparison?
Isn't it a no brainer?

If the equal pay claim wins then any cost is legitimised so has to be paid, should of been paid. If unsuccessful, the other side pay costs. So should have to pay or don't pay, ultimately only paying if guilty.

The cost of industrial action could be far greater than any pay neg request. Might not be legitimised in terms of being successful, succeed or fail the company HAVE TO absorb the cost of industrial action, ultimately paying regardless.

The connection between the two issues that seems to be missed is what really worries me because it is either being deliberately missed or overlooked at a very high level both very worrying.

Dagenham DC are able to do what they are doing they are using the established method. Which incidentally keeps them individual in terms of "Within the Distribution Division". They are asking for the same as those in the same division, or at least to start closing the gap, through the established process. Most of the equal pay claim supporters should welcome parity within a singular division if they ever hope to establish parity across several divisions. Any step or Move to a more consistent less fragmented approach in Distribution will help "the pay claim", as currently the difference in the pay review processes in both divisions is one of the key reasons why the "equal pay claim" won't be successful.
The ASDA case will have little bearing on the T case as there is evidence and behaviour in the one case that is not in the other and could even be shown to be to the contrary.

I am not bothered about the cost or knock effect of either, Directors and Senior Management will do the serious damage long before shop floor staff will, and its not for the first time either.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 19-04-18, 10:08PM
had a chance to speak to some ex-distribution/warehouse guys, and they seem to think that those who are finding the work hard in dist/warehouse, are probably the weak ones. Because the way they remember it, it was quite easy work for the money. And they only left in the last 12 months.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Itiswhatitis on 20-04-18, 05:15PM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Dagenham colleagues are not paid enough for the work they do when you compare them to Thurrock who are paid £11.14 and have to walk alot less miles in a day as they pick by store and get to work in the warm compared to the +1 or even -21 areas of the Dagenham warehouse.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 20-04-18, 10:47PM
had a chance to speak to some ex-distribution/warehouse guys, and they seem to think that those who are finding the work hard in dist/warehouse, are probably the weak ones. Because the way they remember it, it was quite easy work for the money. And they only left in the last 12 months.

It’s a no brainer then!!
If Distribution have it easy for more money, why on earth would you want to compare to them, surely join them and do less for more, if it’s that easy.

So easy they left, wasn’t good enough to make them want to stay.  A money for old rope type of job “Easy Money”, you’d be reluctant to walk away wouldn’t you?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: trigger on 20-04-18, 10:57PM
Is Dagenham a stand alone depot, just curious, if they're part of a group wouldn't the whole group have to go on strike?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: baldeagle on 21-04-18, 12:32PM
Its stand alone for pay negs.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: cityboy on 21-04-18, 02:05PM
I work in a store. Never worked in a depot. But from what I can tell on here I would need the physique of Adonis and the strength of Hercules to hack it in distribution. I would probably take a pay cut in order keep working night after night on those badly thrown-together mashed-up cages of stock we receive, so that our heroes at distribution can be paid more than us for their heroic efforts.  To all those in distribution who reckon they work harder than us, although we both go home after a shift with every muscle aching, god bless you, you should be paid twice what I get! All hail the distribution workers!!
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 21-04-18, 03:39PM
It’s got nothing to do with how hard you work!!!

Your rate is established by the standards set in that particular industry.

So
What do

Aldi
Lidl
Sainsbury
Asda
Morrison’s
M&S
Coop
Waitrose

Pay for Retail staff.


Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: cityboy on 21-04-18, 06:27PM
Duracell, I know that, and I am not complaining about pay, I am commenting on the "you havn't got what it takes" b.s that is rife on here. I am happy to admit that I havn't " got what it takes " to work, e.g., customer service desk in our store, but I wouldn't dream of telling anyone who does that job that I am of greater value to the company because I lift more weight in the job I do. One woman on there is late on in her work career, and a credit to our store and what she adds to it, but she couldn't physically do my job and I couldn't mentally do hers. So who is of greater value,(I,d. go for her!), but we are on same hourly rate of pay. My point is still, fill a cage, empty a cage, handle an irate customer, same value. If I was pushed into who adds more value, it would be the C.S.D. woman.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 21-04-18, 11:11PM
Much is made of the 'going rate'.

What is the going rate in Poland for slapdash filling of cages with stock?

That is Bull of the highest order.

The going rate for a job is the rate that those doing it whinge hard enough about it to achieve.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Guess what? Now, shop-floor are going to start whinging for their going rate, at first through the supermarkets and next through retail in general. And our gang is bigger than yours. See all of you 'skilled' people on the shop-floor if you've got what it takes (which I very much doubt, in-fact I think that most of you would punch the first customer that asked you a question) (they're called 'people skills') chasing your 'comparatively' inflated wage.


And you know what? It is only the same less than 10 people who are putting the shop-workers down. yeah I reckon you could have been gotten at. (cue another 40 or so tesco paid mouth pieces that you have never heard of on here).
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Dorset on 22-04-18, 09:55AM
Optout, you are talking about things that you don't understand and know nothing of.
The reason distribution gets paid more than retail is because distribution is unionised and has the ability to take strike action. If it was not for this there would be no equal pay claim because distribution would be on the same rubbish money and poor contracts as retail.
While I work for distribution I do not work at Dagenham, and so therefor do not fully understand the Dagenham situation. All I need to know as a trade unionist is that Dagenham has voted to take strike action. I will trust Dagenham to decide what is best for Dagenham and support whatever action they decide to take.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 22-04-18, 07:52PM
@Dorset

Apart from your first sentence. (which marks you out as a bit of a nob-head in my book).

I agree 99% (I reserve the 1% for when somebody on here tries to misconstrue my agreement for their own ends).

At last somebody who understands the REAL dynamics of the situation. As I said it is the 'squeaky wheel that gets the grease'.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 22-04-18, 07:57PM
Oh and (re your first sentence)as for stores not being unionized (are you thick), stores dues subsidize distributions strike abilities (nob) . Friends :thumbup:
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 22-04-18, 08:51PM
Nice display of "people skills".
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Dorset on 22-04-18, 09:05PM
@Dorset

Apart from your first sentence. (which marks you out as a bit of a nob-head in my book).

I agree 99% (I reserve the 1% for when somebody on here tries to misconstrue my agreement for their own ends).

At last somebody who understands the REAL dynamics of the situation. As I said it is the 'squeaky wheel that gets the grease'.
Oh and (re your first sentence)as for stores not being unionized (are you thick), stores dues subsidize distributions strike abilities (nob) . Friends :thumbup:

I was just putting you straight, I am not on here to exchange infantile insults.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 01:06AM
@Dorset

Just putting you straight, and letting you know that you are talking about things that you do not understand and know nothing of. If that is hard to take, please tell me which bit of my reply to you that I got wrong, Pal.

@Alf
Welcome to the party (when's the rest of gang going to get here). I am a professional, I have 'people skills' when I am paid to have them. Pal
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 23-04-18, 02:30AM
Classic optout operandi modus.

When things don't go your way throw out the insults. I mean how dare Dorset have the gall to disagree with your self righteous postings.

Though, now you're added conspiracy theories into your repertoire.

"And you know what? It is only the same less than 10 people who are putting the shop-workers down. yeah I reckon you could have been gotten at. (cue another 40 or so tesco paid mouth pieces that you have never heard of on here)."

I'm part of a gang (do we get a cool costume?) that is apparently funded by Tesco, and set up to sabotage your noble endeavours.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 04:28AM
@Alf

Sorry.....I thought I swatted you earlier.....using your own arguments and logic.

As for conspiracy, it wouldn't take a lot for tesco to ask a couple of its 'familiars' to post a few regular bits and pieces on a forum now would it, they do stand to lose (according to some) 4Billion after-all.

Hardly JFK or Fake Moon Landings now is it, pal.

The 'oh must be a looney conspiracy theorist' is a go-to response that many conspirators use to defend themselves and their kin. (it is actually a common response/defence for tesco managers????)

And as your own and Dorsets' arguments have been turned against you both (by this 'conspiracy theorist'),  maybe you should both just scurry off back into the dark crevices you came from. :thumbup: Friends :thumbup: .

Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 23-04-18, 06:05AM
@Alf

Sorry.....I thought I swatted you earlier.....using your own arguments and logic.


lets recap

You claimed hypocrisy, with this quote from me as evidence.

"'But I wouldn't be so sure about retail being any better if this goes through, those massive payroll increases will need to come from somewhere."

Presumably you were implying that I cannot simultaneously support Dagenham whilst not supporting the equal pay case, but as I said, that is false equivalence.

The validity/legitimacy of Dagenham strike action is not in question, the validity/legitimacy of the equal pay claim is.
But for whatever reason, you decided we weren't discussing legitimacy, despite it being of importance, but anyhoo whatevs.

That took us onto impact, but I'm not going to continue to beat that dead horse...

Essentially the Dagenham strike actions and the equal pay case differ, they differ a lot, the idea that one statement made about one, must hold true for the other is simply wrong.

As for conspiracy, it wouldn't take a lot for tesco to ask a couple of its 'familiars' to post a few regular bits and pieces on a forum now would it, they do stand to lose (according to some) 4Billion after-all.

Hardly JFK or Fake Moon Landings now is it, pal.

The 'oh must be a looney conspiracy theorist' is a go-to response that many conspirators use to defend themselves and their kin. (it is actually a common response/defence for tesco managers????)

You must process some serious egotistical issues if you summarise people disagreeing with you, as some covert conspiracy.

But yeah of course, I'm being paid by Tesco to write negative posts in regards to this equal pay case, because f*** the total lack of logic i.e. random posts on a obscure/small website aren't going to affect the outcome of this case.

And as your own and Dorsets' arguments have been turned against you both (by this 'conspiracy theorist'),  maybe you should both just scurry off back into the dark crevices you came from. :thumbup: Friends :thumbup: .

Dorset says you don't know what you're talking about, you come back with the brilliant, no!, it's you who does not know what they are talking about (well first you called them a nob-head, but who's judging).

And then the pièce de résistance

Quote from: Dorset
I was just putting you straight, I am not on here to exchange infantile insults.

Quote from: optout
Just putting you straight, and letting you know that you are talking about things that you do not understand and know nothing of.

Such masterful debating skills, you literally took what he/she said and repeated it back at them.







Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: lucgeo on 23-04-18, 06:30AM
Now, now kids, play nice :o

Though have to admit, some comments in this ongoing debate are making me chuckle  ;D
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 06:45AM
@Lucgeo

 ;D ;D ;D PMSL
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 06:46AM
@Alf

I know you are, so what am I.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 23-04-18, 06:53AM
Now, now kids, play nice :o

Though have to admit, some comments in this ongoing debate are making me chuckle  ;D

Sorry,  but I have to make a certain number of posts, or tesco won't pay me.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Dorset on 23-04-18, 10:40AM
@Dorset

Just putting you straight, and letting you know that you are talking about things that you do not understand and know nothing of. If that is hard to take, please tell me which bit of my reply to you that I got wrong, Pal.

@Alf
Welcome to the party (when's the rest of gang going to get here). I am a professional, I have 'people skills' when I am paid to have them. Pal

No you don't, and if Tesco are paying you to be professional and have people skills then you are robbing them blind.
What you are saying could confuse intelligent people, but only until they get to know you.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: GreenGrocer on 23-04-18, 01:33PM
 ;D We have some management material.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 02:45PM
@Alf

'Sorry,  but I have to make a certain number of posts, or tesco won't pay me.'


Just like tesco, all quantity and no quality :thumbup: . Friends.

ps. dont forget to check your payslip.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 02:59PM
@Dorset

'What you are saying could confuse intelligent people, but only until they get to know you.'


Maybe, but we're talking about 'thick' people here though, aren't we? I do hope you're not 'the brains' of this outfit...oh and.. :thumbup: .Friends....Ahem..
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Nomad on 23-04-18, 08:52PM
Topic: Dagenham strike vote, anyone ?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: alf on 23-04-18, 09:27PM
Oh god, they got to you too nomad, this conspiracy runs deep.

I jest of course, having a nosey, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any updated news in regards to Dagenham.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: GreenGrocer on 23-04-18, 10:05PM
@Alf

'Sorry,  but I have to make a certain number of posts, or tesco won't pay me.'


Just like tesco, all quantity and no quality :thumbup: . Friends.

ps. dont forget to check your payslip.


The quantity and no quality is becoming more obvious by the day. Management moving people on before they complete a task. Not to worry the shares have gone up. Some colleagues you are working alongside are getting less in the pay than the government would give them for sitting at home
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Dorset on 24-04-18, 10:28AM
@Dorset

'What you are saying could confuse intelligent people, but only until they get to know you.'


Maybe, but we're talking about 'thick' people here though, aren't we? I do hope you're not 'the brains' of this outfit...oh and.. :thumbup: .Friends....Ahem..


VLH reminds me of visiting a typical local pub these days, amongst the regulars there is always one that talks out of his arse and gets made fun of by the rest of locals.
I am not a regular here and only popped in for a quick one so to speak. Good bye for now Coptout, don't let the rest of the locals get you down and don't forget you are special.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 24-04-18, 07:01PM
Duracell, I know that, and I am not complaining about pay, I am commenting on the "you havn't got what it takes" b.s that is rife on here. I am happy to admit that I havn't " got what it takes " to work, e.g., customer service desk in our store, but I wouldn't dream of telling anyone who does that job that I am of greater value to the company because I lift more weight in the job I do. One woman on there is late on in her work career, and a credit to our store and what she adds to it, but she couldn't physically do my job and I couldn't mentally do hers. So who is of greater value,(I,d. go for her!), but we are on same hourly rate of pay. My point is still, fill a cage, empty a cage, handle an irate customer, same value. If I was pushed into who adds more value, it would be the C.S.D. woman.

From a personal perspective and opinion, I don’t see ability as defining point.
Where the “ physicality, workload, target pressures and performance management in Distribution are mentioned and considered it’s not about whether worker A can do it or not, it’s because it’s so physically demanding the company any company offering such Work must offer pay to attract and retain staff in that given task.

The Numbers were mentioned previously somewhere, the applicants to retail are far greater than those to Distribution.
Why is that if the work is comparable but the rate is lower.

Dagenham from what I can gather are asking for realistic industry rates comparable to likened work within a reasonable locality. So they are not even comparing within the network they are comparing with the locality.

Talking about physicality and the demands and pressures that come with it, doesn’t mean I believe retail staff can do it, it’s an indication of why that role needs to pay more, to keep people coming back to do it, Distribution are struggling to retain staff, particularly where the locality is competitive with multiple employers offering similar work-type.

If Distribution is such a gravy train, why are people not trying to get on it.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: optout on 24-04-18, 07:34PM
@Duracell



'Dagenham from what I can gather are asking for realistic industry rates comparable to likened work within a reasonable locality. So they are not even comparing within the network they are comparing with the locality.' (my highlighting; optout)

So shopworkers should be on the same pay as Aldi then.

'Talking about physicality and the demands and pressures that come with it, doesn’t mean I believe retail staff can do it, it’s an indication of why that role needs to pay more, to keep people coming back to do it, Distribution are struggling to retain staff, particularly where the locality is competitive with multiple employers offering similar work-type.'


Unfortunately according to the same law that is being used in the 'equal value' case, the strenuous nature of the work cannot be used as reason to deny the validity of an equal value claim, as this can be seen as discrimination in-its-self.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 25-04-18, 04:36PM
Paid the same as Aldi?
I don’t know should they, why single out Aldi? What about the rest of the employers In the retail sector? Not necessarily the same, Pay has to be “competitive” for retail for exactly the same reasons as it should be for Distribution, healthcare or the Construction Industry. A comparison with Aldi or Any other retailer is a more realistic comparison, yet there would be no claim, no single source Employer to point the finger at.

I appologise for the typo my opinion or belief doesn’t mean I think retail staff Can’t do it.

Not sure about your last point.  ..? What law? Indirect discrimination to a Protected Characteristic, the foundation of the claim.

So recognising the nature of Work type, Minimum performance, performance management, Medical assessments, physical demands and acredited skills, then setting a rate that is competitive in the industry and locality, which will attract and retain a skillset with experience and willingness to continually perform because of that rate.

How is that discrimination to a Protected Characteristic? (The foundation of the claim), more to the point which Protected Characteristic and what does it have to do with the Dagenham situation.



Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: baldeagle on 25-04-18, 05:03PM
I fully support the actions of individuals to make a claim for equal pay between stores and DC,s.I am sure we all have our own opinions.But is it not time to stop bitching on here and await a legal judgement.I feel some comments are getting out of hand and could be having a negative effect on the reason we come on here for. We should be sharing advice and help .Please can we let the legals deal with it.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 25-04-18, 05:45PM
It would be quite easy to stop talking about “The Claim” if everyone else did the same.

You felt the need to state you fully support the claim but you want others to stop talking about it, and leave it to the legal people.

I agree too much negativity can have an impact on VLH though. :thumbup:

Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: GreenGrocer on 25-04-18, 05:51PM
Nobody cares
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: baldeagle on 25-04-18, 06:22PM
I just feel we are not doing what this site was setup to do or am I wrong? . The claim has been made should we not now sit back and await the outcome.Are we not giving help to Tesco,s legal team by our comments on here?We have heard the views of members and can draw our own conclusions but the matter is out of our hands now lets await the outcome. Please
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Nomad on 25-04-18, 07:37PM
baldeagle, your not wrong.

Dagenham strike vote., anyone ?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: cityboy on 26-04-18, 03:28AM
Duracell, I would never post on here that anybody employed by Tesco has an easier life because of their role in the company, not least because I have not' walked in their shoes ' , it is as infantile as joining in a days v nights argument if you only have experience of one or the other. But wouldn't the number of applicants for retail compared to distribution be more to do with location, number of stores to depots, availability of family friendly roles, e.g., p.t. evenings, than any fear of hard work? I work a 3 minute drive from my store, and 1.5hrs drive from the nearest depot., so any monetary gain would be lost in travel expenses. But I reckon if I did work in a depot., I'd learn to change into my super-hero costume on the way to work!
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: cityboy on 26-04-18, 03:58AM
Only an enquiry here, do they have family friendly roles/hours in distribution?
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Duracell on 26-04-18, 11:23AM
Family Freindly Roles or Hours in Distribution.
Nights, if you have things to do in the day.
Some Partime if it suits the company, very limited though. generally warehouse staff have a set contract type and hours to apply to. Nights or Days.

Super-hero Costume! Is that what they call the Company Uniform now, makes sense to call it that, when all that wear one, are being expected to "Rise to the Challenges" more and more each day, harder and harder with each day.
Title: Re: Dagenham strike vote.
Post by: Carparkpothole on 26-04-18, 06:14PM
@Alf

'Sorry,  but I have to make a certain number of posts, or tesco won't pay me.'


Just like tesco, all quantity and no quality :thumbup: . Friends.

ps. dont forget to check your payslip.


If you can get logged in.