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Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/

Started by OpShunned, 22-03-17, 05:49PM

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Duracell

#625
Are the roles of equal value?
Equal value to who?

"Equal value to the company" (you say).....

So a court can't decide, the company has to, so are the rates an indication that the company already recognise the value of the varying roles, because of the difference between them?
Only the company can decide the "value to the company", it can't be dictated, it is realised by many factors some of which are unique to the individual company.



You can't ask an individual or a group what they value, and then tell them they are wrong. Equal value to the company can't be decided by anyone other than the company.

Of Equal Value is more debatable but it raises questions like

To who?
By what measure?

Without those questions you can't establish the values let alone realise if they are equal.
The realisation of "Value to Who" .. restricts who can decide what is equal.
Imagine me trying to say to you what the value of each company benefit should be to you.... it's got no legs has it!! let alone must be of equal value to you because they are Broadly Titled "A Company Benefit".


My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

optout

Just to be clear, this is a thread in the 'stores' forum, just in case that matters. Just thought I'd let you know. :thumbup:
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......


Duracell

#628
Quote from: optout on 12-11-18, 09:17PM
Just to be clear, this is a thread in the 'stores' forum, just in case that matters. Just thought I'd let you know. :thumbup:


Thanks for the heads up  :thumbup: 
Whilst stating the obvious seems oppropriate, the stores "Forum" is part of the Bigger site I am a supporter of and as such, I can post to any of the sections within it that are open to me, unless the site owner Or moderators say otherwise.

Where there is discussion about something I am part of I sometimes feel it appropriate to comment.

"The Claim" and opinions of it aren't exclusive to Stores, without the inclusion of DC there is no claim, the inclusion of DC warrants opinion from that area. Where DC's are mentioned in any thread, if I feel a need to respond to a particular comment I will.

Just in case that matters too  :thumbup:

I'm more than happy to discuss the fundamentals of the Topic Title rather than posting the obvious though.

So shall we get back to the topic discussion and debate?
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

optout

I AM NOT A REP, BUT......


panther

Quote from: exmember on 14-11-18, 01:38PM
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665

That's not Leigh Day tho? Harcus Sinclair UK Ltd,


I think the whole thing is awful, DC workers deserve the pay they get. I stand by that, and I work instore. And even more so if you're a woman in DC. I've seen posts on here complaining about pick rate in .com. Try being in a depot!

optout

as a male from stores, I am disgusted about the disparity in pay for the shop workers.
I think it is strange that tesco will talk to a newspaper but not its own staff about this issue. It all smacks of damage limitation (a bit too late) to me. If tesco has what it believes to be valid reasons for the disparity why hasn't it given those reasons officially to its employees????
And even worse, why hasn't usdaw expected an explanation on its members behalf????
ABSOLUTE DISGRACE
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

cityboy

Optout, simmer down. As a WORKER from stores, I too disagree with the disparity in pay, and Usdaw's indifference, but D.C., workers deserve what they get or more. Anyone in stores who is subjected to the same regime of working to silly percentages, deserves similar wages and bonus for reaching such silly targets. But this is the start of Tesco employing machines, your value to the company has a percentage value rather than a human experience value. Although I don't work  to percentages, 2 of us are still expected to do the work that 3 did and vilified if it is not done, (it goes over my head), the point being you are not now seen as a person, but a percentage. Thanks, Dave Lewis.

tescopleb

#634
Yes the Dc workers  deserve what get they get but this is to recognise that store staff do a job of equal worth. Are the potential consequences of not following Think 25, the many Food & Hygiene Regulations, right down to selling out of date food and not dealing with spillages properly, not severe enough to warrant equal pay? It might not be heavy, but that doesn't mean its not of equal worth to the company. Ask yourself why Tosco pay lip service to training store staff?
 

Duracell

#635
Quote from: optout on 15-11-18, 12:25AM
If tesco has what it believes to be valid reasons for the disparity why hasn't it given those reasons officially to its employees????
And even worse, why hasn't usdaw expected an explanation on its members behalf????
ABSOLUTE DISGRACE

Outstanding fair play!

Union members and workers in general have never tried to address the disparity through the correct process for contractual consultations over pay rates, yet you demand answers officially, in simple terms the process needs to see the questions asked before answers can be given, but workers have chosen to overlook the correct process and go straight to litigation, the company will likely only respond now via the preferred method of correspondence invoked by the workers.

The concern and complaint about disparity has never been raised within the partnership or its processes, because it wasn't worthy of such a complex issue? yet you are asking the overlooked "system" to give answers to these same complex issues.

I won't mention how the above illustrates clear difference between the ASDA case and Others.

Seems like inconsistent Non-Sense.

My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

optout

Talk about inconsistency, on this thread (Reply #91 on: 04-09-17, 09:19PM)

You state

"Foolish propaganda is all that this thread has become, I suspect someone is overly bitter, the clue being in the profile name."(my highlighting)

You later go on to say (in the same post).

"And before someone calls me jack and says I'm alright, I have records and instances where Distribution have been butt f***ed with a red hot poker that spans 20 years.. where we received  little if any sympathy or support from retail."

Bitter much??????? Is this your payback time???????

I think we now get to the root of some peoples motivations.
Seems like inconsistent nonsense to me.
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

Duracell

#637
Your second highlight of my words are if quoted correctly illustrating to another how inconsistent their mentality is in seeking support from some who are some how selfish when they refuse but that type of support asked seemed not to be bidirectional in the past , as for being bitter about the support is indeed not bidirectional, absolutely not because to be bitter I would have had to expect that support and then be disappointed it failed to transpire, I am no fool, I didn't expect it, so wasn't disapointed and therefore not bitter at all.

So not inconsistent either.

:thumbup:

My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

optout

..keh..?
Could you explain that again, (imagine I am a 5 year old)?
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

lordadmiral

Quote from: panther on 14-11-18, 10:56PM
Quote from: exmember on 14-11-18, 01:38PM
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665

That's not Leigh Day tho? Harcus Sinclair UK Ltd,


I think the whole thing is awful, DC workers deserve the pay they get. I stand by that, and I work instore. And even more so if you're a woman in DC. I've seen posts on here complaining about pick rate in .com. Try being in a depot!

The problem is that system implemented in tesco isnt perfect. Worker in DC whos job is to load wagon (nothing else) is being paid let say £12p/h and then there is worker in store warehouse who is unloading same wagon and is being paid £8.16p/h. Its simpliest example. Then it comes another problem that in a diferent DC another person is earning £10p/h for same job..... and go on

Duracell

That's the thing... there is no worker in DC who just loads trailers and nothing else, the warehouse person has to be multi skilled.

You mention varying rates with different DC's, what about the Varying within stores, and also Jacks £9+ per hour for essentially same retail work under the same management structure? Are these disparities not an issue?
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

lordadmiral

Oh yes other disparities are problem aswell. I already wrote about that elsewhere in the past.
The truth is that i see the "claim" not as oportunity to get more beacuse someone else in earning more but as a wake up call for Tesco to revise pay structure across the whole company.
I do not belive that checkout worker deserve to earn £12p/h like dc staff in example above but member of replenishement should have more than £8.16p/h.
Its dificult subject. No easy answer/solution but tesco got time and resource to trully build better system.

A word to example i gave earlier with loading/ unloading.
I choose it for a reason without mentioning any other tasks carried out by dc or instore worker.
What i understand the reason why ASDA lost their case is that solicitors more likely used similar basic comparison to prove their rights. So similar arguments could be used against Tesco.
Step by step, task after task. Etc
I bet many people think that if Tesco or any other retailer who loose the case then the pay will be equalized to match the highest earner. I doubt it. It would be court who will say how much its gonna be. It might be just extra 30p for every hour worked in last 6 years but not £3 like some might hope for.

Well thats my thoughts.


Classy Bird

Tesco include things like discounts and benefits and claim it is equal to being paid more an hour than the actual hourly rate. (in stores, can't speak for Dc)

Jack's get £9 as they don't get the offers, discount etc or so they say.

So I can't see tesco stores hrly rate being matched to Jack's


chris9997

Looking at a video Q&A from Leigh day regarding the Asda case and one of the questions goes a little like this:

"If I don't sign up to the case do I still benefit" the answer according to them is "if the case is won and back pay is awarded only the claimants will be entitled to back pay although all will likely get the pay rise"

lucgeo

#645
Can't see how they can differentiate  ??? If the courts rule that case is founded, and award the backpay, then to only pay the ones who claimed would be discriminatory surely?

How many cases are won on citing past cases and rulings, so to make an award, ASDA would then be inundated by other employees claiming their backpay  ???
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

lordadmiral


madness

Quote from: tescopleb on 15-11-18, 10:29AM
Yes the Dc workers  deserve what get they get but this is to recognise that store staff do a job of equal worth. Are the potential consequences of not following Think 25, the many Food & Hygiene Regulations, right down to selling out of date food and not dealing with spillages properly, not severe enough to warrant equal pay? It might not be heavy, but that doesn't mean its not of equal worth to the company. Ask yourself why Tosco pay lip service to training store staff?
Don't like your pay go out and get a job that pays a value you put on your time and skills/ability. Fact of the matter is retail is bottom of the barrel job with too many here thinking just because they do it and fancy a pay rise for nothing they are deserving of it. Think managers are overpaid for doing no work, great become a manager yourself if it is so easy and of little value and ride that nice easy life for a big fat paycheck.

tescopleb

Oh dear, oh dear with an attitude like this I'm surprised we aren't paying tosco for the privilege of working for them. Who rattled your cage?  Is that the best you can do? A pay rise for doing nothing doesn't mean tosco and their like haven't been undervaluing the contribution made by store staff for their own ends.
 

forrestgimp

Quote from: Duracell on 16-11-18, 09:12AM


You mention varying rates with different DC's, what about the Varying within stores, and also Jacks £9+ per hour for essentially same retail work under the same management structure? Are these disparities not an issue?

Yes they are, However the present case is not about that but I would not rule out something in the future, its easier to go after DCs because we are all Tesco employees and well we know what the argument is where as Jacks is supposed to be a separate company (lmao yea right)

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