Can someone help? I work pre sort and also unload lorries as well. I am trained, wear my safety boots and we have a scissor lift. The duty manager told me I had to unload the fresh lorry by myself. Now I know I'm only 5ft nothing and a slim girl, I really don't mind doing the job but I do need help. I asked her if there was anyone to help me and she flat out refused.
My questions are, should there be 2 people unloading a lorry? should I just shut up and get on with it or refuse to do it?
Many thanks in advance.
You should be able to tip it by yourself but you should always have members of the fresh/produce team there to take the cages to the relevant areas. The duty managers attitude sounds disgraceful. Speak to a union rep about this if you can.
As far I can remember, it's a two person job. I'm sure someone will be able to confirm this shortly.
Thank you both. No I was expected to tip it and put the cages away too! It took me forever to get done plus load on rubbish after. I'm hoping it is a two man job so I can next time tell her this and have my facts straight.
in future if the duty manager insists you do it alone then take your time and go home on time. if its not finished then tough. the lazy tw*t should have helped you >:(
You expect some help at Tosco. :D
I have asked many times and the time it has taken the LM to explain how I can't he could've had the job finished.
You should have a tip and fill team to help you.Its impossible to achieve tip and fill times on your own.
I was kind of hoping there was something in health and safety regarding this but i suppose its at the duty managers desecration :'(
Okay, if they are going to be a smart arse then by all means, unload it yourself.
make sure you have space for the delivery.
Once driver has stopped safely, get out into the yard, make sure driver leaves vehicle for your safety.
check temperature gauge then check any seals.
Get driver to open lorry then return to his/her cab for reverse manoeuvre.
making sure you are safely back inside the warehouse, inflate door seal then use the traffic light system to indicate to driver it is safe to reverse.
Once reversed, open loading bay door.
Tell the driver, they are to stay on the lorry to unstrap cages/dollies and pull them forward one at a time for you to place on the lift.
load delivery cages/dollies onto lift, one cage/dolly at a time.
When lift is full, unload cages/dollies into that space, one cage/dolly at a time.
Reload with rsu, one cage/dolly at a time, it's compulsory if you are to comply with health and safety.
Driver goes outside and into cab.
close loading bay doors to deflate seal and use traffic light system to let driver know it is safe to pull forward.
Once lorry is stopped safely, go outside and make sure driver leaves the cab.
Driver will close doors and you will use seal on lorry.
Return to warehouse.
open gates when driver is ready to leave.
close gates.
Seeing as no one is availiable to help you with delivery, I assume it will still be there when you have completed the previous steps.
Now, get you temperature probe and following safe and legal temperature check guidance and your training select cages for temperature checks on chilled and frozen goods.
Once this is complete, start moving the cages/dollies one at a time into the chiller, do not rush, your safety is important.
Keep a diary of all requests whether you think they are unreasonable or not and inform your union rep of the situation just so they are aware what is going on.
Unloading a delivery by any means other than a dock leveler is a two person job (this does not include the driver). Tip and Fill is quite rare these days and turn around times are the Store Manager's problem.....
Insist on reading the Safe System Of Work (SSOW) for the operation.
The "manager" will capitulate immediately.
Better safe than popular.....
So i can refuse to do it without help then and not lose my job? Lol :P Ill tell her to read the SSOW aswell. Thank you.
It isn't a good idea to just refuse. Politely insist upon seeing the SSOW before you can proceed.
Make her hang herself...... ;)
Quote from: kimbolina on 15-11-17, 03:56PM
So i can refuse to do it without help then and not lose my job? Lol :P Ill tell her to read the SSOW aswell. Thank you.
Obviously a flat refusal on your part will leave you open to all manner of problems, My advice would be to speak to a Union rep if you are a member if not ask for a membership form and fill it in before you mention this to them as if you mention it before they cant help you but once you fill the form in and hand it back to the rep (do not post it yourself) you are able to have union help.
Speak to them ask them to mediate and go from there.
You'll have to unload and reload yourself if your using a scissor lift. Only tail lift deliveries requires 2 people.
Ok ill just get on and do it in future but ill take my time 8)
Thank you all
Please do not take this as a criticism its not .If you dont know how many staff it takes to off load from a scissor lift I would suggest you have NOT been trained.you need to see the SSOW not follow what is the norm at your store. Put your request to see the SSOW in writing to cover you.Have you been signed off, if so go back to the person who signed you off and ask them how many staff are required. If you have NOT been trained correctly this is a H&S issue. And follow darklighters advise totally correct
Im pretty sure the stores with a transdeck that get deckers only require 1 backdoorman as well in tesco's eyes
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-11-17, 04:32PM
You'll have to unload and reload yourself if your using a scissor lift. Only tail lift deliveries requires 2 people.
Possibly in NI, but certainly not in England, Wales or Scotland. Although only one person (in addition to the driver) is required whilst loading UODs from the trailer to the lift, two people are required to unload from the lift to the ground. The D/D transdeck is level to the ground when UODs are moved from it so not the same issue.
As forrestgimp has advised, avoid direct conflict as it can have unpleasant side effects. If you can get the union to argue for you that is a much better idea.
I like darklighter's reference to following every procedure to the letter but you have to be absolutely sure that you are right or you lose credibility rapidly.
Yep scissor lift is a one person job, but we do still use tip/fill team from fresh when that's in, 90% of the time the grocery is just one person as it arrives at 11am and twilight store so no grocery staff till 4pm.
We do see more often that the duty manager or stock or compliance manager tends to help. Even saw the store manager put some safety shoes on and tip with the backdoor colleague yep it's true and it's not viewpoint season!!
Quote from: kimbolina on 15-11-17, 03:56PM
So i can refuse to do it without help then and not lose my job? Lol :P Ill tell her to read the SSOW aswell. Thank you.
You can refuse to move cages that are unreasonably heavy or that have damaged wheels also shippers that are famous for having wheels that don't want to go in the direction you want to go in. As mentioned in a previous post move everything one at a time even when questioned by your boss, no one can force you to move more than one. If all else fails speak to your union rep if you have one and get them to take it to the next stage.
Despite Tosco's we do this and we do that attitude if your store is anything like the one I work in Health & Safety only seems to apply if and when they deem it to be to their benefit not yours. Good luck with your battle :thumbup:
Question if only one person plus driver are used when operating a scissor lift how do you get down if it goes wrong?
Seems we need an SSOW for a scissor lift.
Yes Nomad,we do not what happens locally.Just as a point drivers are not allowed to put the flap down from the lift into the trailer,I jest you not but how many staff would know this.
I would second Nomads request.
And add the following question; Has anybody who has given advice on this thread ACTUALLY READ the SSOW for scissor-lift deliveries in England and Wales?
I have, but only from a drivers print out. its amazing how many staff drivers and stores who do not know the correct procedure and just do what everybody else does
Quote from: hesketh on 15-11-17, 06:25PM
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-11-17, 04:32PM
You'll have to unload and reload yourself if your using a scissor lift. Only tail lift deliveries requires 2 people.
Possibly in NI, but certainly not in England, Wales or Scotland. Although only one person (in addition to the driver) is required whilst loading UODs from the trailer to the lift, two people are required to unload from the lift to the ground. The D/D transdeck is level to the ground when UODs are moved from it so not the same issue.
As forrestgimp has advised, avoid direct conflict as it can have unpleasant side effects. If you can get the union to argue for you that is a much better idea.
I like darklighter's reference to following every procedure to the letter but you have to be absolutely sure that you are right or you lose credibility rapidly.
Thank you hesketh and if she follows procedure she will always be right, they cannot touch her whatsoever otherwise they are saying their own health and safety measures are advisory and not compulsory.
This poor excuse for a manager does not and will not have a leg to stand on when a colleague follows procedure as although these rules are routinely broken to speed things up they are not there to be broken and when the excrement hits the fan, that manager could find themselves on a very sticky wicket.
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-11-17, 04:32PM
You'll have to unload and reload yourself if your using a scissor lift. Only tail lift deliveries requires 2 people.
if pulling cages onto scissor lift this requires 2 people (someone the other side to operate gates and remove cages from lift. You would be the wrong side of cages)
If a regular thing simple dont wear safety shoes
Quote from: trolleyboy96 on 15-11-17, 06:40PM
We do see more often that the duty manager or stock or compliance manager tends to help. Even saw the store manager put some safety shoes on and tip with the backdoor colleague yep it's true and it's not viewpoint season!!
I know many of you wont believe this but I've had a PM help me tip a wagon... :o :o :o
NNNNOOOO :o
Sorry people I'm a bit out of touch having retired last year. Drivers have risk assessments on the microlise system in the cabs it comes under documents, this covers stores AND equipment hope this helps.
It became inconvenient to have the drivers insisting on things being done things properly :-X
The store's procedures were removed from the risk assessments some time ago.
As I understand the new system. store risk assessment's and equipment SSOW are on tablet that in the drivers cab for all to see. If I'm wrong please correct me.
The risk assessment definitely refers only to the driver elements of the process but there are hundreds of other documents on the tablet which may include the SSOW from the store perspective.
I will check tonight.....
talking to one of the backdoorman in my store he said the hand signals we were supposed to use to help drivers reverse on the bay,had vanished from our last risk assessment update,and staff are to remain in the building when a driver reverses at all times,but in the next line it contradicts itself by saying insure no other vehicles or staff/public are in the area whilst this manouver takes place(you can't do that if you are inside the building!)
The driver's tablet SSOW for a scissor lift delivery does not contain the store's requirements. It mentions a single store operative a few times but then refers to the SSOW for handling roll cages which is not on the tablet.
I hope the mention of a single person is just standard laziness and it has not been surreptitiously changed. I am sure that the SSOW for handling roll cages will include a requirement for two persons to be necessary where a ramp situation is involved. A scissor lift is not a fully installed dock leveler and often has a somewhat difficult off-ramp.
any chance of posting the full thing on here? a copy and paste job possibly?
and does anybody have access to the store-side SSOW for scissor-lift etc? And if so could you copy and paste it onto this thread?
I am sure it would come in very handy for many who feel unable to ask their own managers for a look at this document.
To load and unload a double deck trailer. It MUST be done by 2 members of staff at all times. You must both go up and down in the lift together and should never leave one person on a deck just to enable more stock to be tipped faster. This is in the event of an emergency one can get help if needed. Its all H & S stuff. The loaders would never dream of doing it solo at our depot.
Hope that helps
In nearly twenty years, I've never known a back doorman to take fresh cages to the ambient or chill. That's the job of produce and diary workers. Back door takes it off the wagon, checks the labels and we take it the rest of the way.
Not surprised the manager isn't willing to help. Our lift once broke down, and we had to tip the wagons in the back yard and pull the bloody cages up the ramp into the warehouse by hand. Not fun at all. The mangers promised to help, but all conviently disappeared for a "conference call" when the wagon turned up.
Jolly rare for produce or fresh to ever help out in our store on days - they rarely even drag a cage away if the happen to pass by. Every 6 months or so someone has a fit about turnaround times and we have about a week of getting support before the managers loose interest. The funniest part is how the produce lads all proclaim that they are super fit and have the hardest job in store, but soon moan about dragging anything more than a few cages of delivery whereas it's not unknown for us to be dragging waggons for 3 or 4 hours at a time with only a brief pause between loads.
I've not seen anything in KYS or SSOW for DD deliveries that explicitly states having a second store monkey on hand, but will check when I get a chance.
The mtl auditor only looks for one person to tip a wagon with a scissor lift, watched him numerous times watch the backdoor for process and never fails or not met on the new way of scoring.
If it's a tail lift in the yard then other rules apply, has to be 2 people, a double decker again 2 people.
I've always been under the impression that a colleague and the driver is sufficient when it's a scissor lift tip
Can someone under18 work on back door with another team members 'supervision'? Is that team member liable if the under 18 has an accident?
Under 18s should not be working on the back door at all
As above under 18's can not tip wagons, you can move cages once in the warehouse but that's it. When I say move cages I mean as trained not 2 at a time and you can't use the electric cage movers.
If someone is under 18, working on back door, operating machinery, letting in deliveries etc are Tesco breaking the law?
Well the manager that allows it is, Tesco would deny all knowledge. It's up to the manager to manage...I know don't laugh...
strictly off limits and against company policy and the law!!
Absolutely, shocking , the person should refuse
the person MUST refuse and tell the store manager as soon as possible. all managers should know the rules regarding under 18's whether it be what jobs they are not allowed to do and also at what times they are not allowed to work
All managers should know the rules ??? They should but don't always , Remember One manager taking on someone to work on the back door during the summer holidays , it was only after they asked for a day off for their 17Th birthday ,did it click what was going on :o
Every so often you get one under 18 that thinks it's ok to do the job, I remember a lad a few years back any chance he got to tip a wagon he would as it's "more fun" than filling toilet rolls, manager did an informal discussion as it was back then, colleague ignored it, 2 weeks later he got a final written as failure to adhere to health safety at Work, I think he lasted a month before being caught again and sacked.
Anyway moral of story if under 18 don't, if told to by a manager you can decline and take a rep with you for a meeting or a wages clerk as they know the young workers rules better than most, and if you do do it don't get caught! - last bit joking!!
In my store you'd never get caught. The managers are too busy sitting in the non-confidential office or the PMs first aid room. If they are not too busy filling the soft roll or bullying GAs.
use your phone to video it happening whilst the manager is present (later to be backed up by store cctv footage) then call protector line, tell them that you have evidence and you are going to contact the local council if something isn't done about it.
Watch the s***-hit-the-fan
https://www.commercialmotor.com/news/compliance/tesco-worker-hit-falling-roll-cage (https://www.commercialmotor.com/news/compliance/tesco-worker-hit-falling-roll-cage)
QuoteTesco has been fined £160,000 following an accident at its store in Chadwell St Mary, Essex, when an employee was seriously injured when a roll cage fell on her during unloading.
A hearing at Basildon Magistrates' Court was told that on 30 September 2015 Ms Manze was working alone to unload roll cages containing stock from a delivery truck at the Tesco Express store. As she moved one of the roll cages into the store, it fell on top of her, causing injuries that required hospital treatment.
They included a fractured pelvis. Thurrock Council found that Tesco had not followed its own risk assessment, which requires two people to work together when using roll cages.Tesco pleaded guilty to breaching Section 2(1) of the Health & Safety at Work Act and was also ordered to pay £18,118 costs to Thurrock Council.
And some will still do it on their own either out of fear of a MM bully, ignorance or a "it wont happen to me" attitude.
OR, look at me, arn't I cleaver - do I get my cheap suit and stripey shirt now !
Common things happened like that in express, rarely 2 staff when tipping delivery. Tipping 2 delivery in a row just only you, not enough space in the backyard and warehouse to put delivery, and some will be in the shop floor, of course after put some cages in bakery, staff room, management room and other space available.
Tesco got fined is nothing, manager got fined that will be interesting. In some express i work if tipping need to be 2 person, the shop will be close really often when delivery is coming. It is not about scared of manager etc, most people who work in express dont, at least people i know. but if you do that, everything will be stuck. Even sometimes i hope that happened more, people just need to let the worse happened...to the shop because of bad management.
For now what gonna happened in expresses are closing the shop due to no staff, one or none, mostly in bank holiday. Overtime is become a nightmare, when you get asked to do overtime due to someone on holiday or sick, expect to work one on one for few hours or whole shift.
Totot, do you tip on your own when you should not ?
I only ask as you, like many others, seem to justify it being done for the sake of things that are not the responsibility of the 'tipper'.
Most of the time yes, good thing now the bay is much better than before with. Beside because of really tight space, if there are 2 people tip it down, one will drag it to the bay, the other will just look from the bay waiting for the next cage, it is impossible for one in the side the other in front of the cage.
Forget about rule and regulation even every year we have to re-do taking delivery training.
If any one of you are tipping , Unloading /loading on your own then you are stupid. I have seen to many cases when someone has been hurt and Tesco walked away by saying the rules say ..............
Break the rules and you risk your health and your job ,
All the Express stores have cracked down on safety in my area and are following the rules to the book, but that's only after someone got hurt and The company used the safety rules that had been broken to cover themselves.
Tesco are always flouting their H&S rules...and as soon as an accident happens...they blame the colleague for not following those same rules...an argument of the manager told me to, will fall on deaf ears, as YOU have signed off on your training cards, so it is up to you to follow the rules :-X
Yesterday, shopping at another local Tesco, there was the bloke, collecting trollies, no Hi-Vis and canvas trainers on ??? ???
If you break the rules and get hurt it will not even be Tesco that you end up arguing with.
Ultimately, you will be facing the insurance company's £200 an hour barrister, and he/she doesn't get paid that much for losing!
Does the information on SSOW still stand as my store seem unable to find our SSOW ?