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21-11-17, 01:54PM

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Author Topic: Is it okay to be forced to stay behind when your shift has finished?  (Read 5937 times)

optout

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from a post in another thread by @grocerysucks

I'm not sure if I have the permissions to post a thread so I'll vent it here.

I work the 3pm to midnight twilight shift in grocery. With my former manager, the general rule was that if we all get done early, we leave a little bit early. Like 10-15 minutes early. If we don't get everything done, we stay late. Same amount of time. Of course, the latter happened more often.

Well this happened once about 2 months ago. Manager told us all to leave over the speaker. One girl from another section was still working and on a rare late shift and was frazzled by it and didn't clock out. We get finished an hour early a few days later when the manager was off and get the medial task of cleaning the shelves for 45 minutes. Fine, whatever. But we head down to the door at quarter to 12. Only this time, another manager calls us all the way back to the warehouse, makes us stand around for 10 minutes as she does other stuff, then she informs us that we aren't allowed to leave early (never mind the fact that our manager told us to).

So from that point on, cool. My manager got fired not long after and I adopted the general rule of working until 12 no matter what, but then leaving no matter what. Well, our new manager has decided that our working ours extend unpaid beyond 12. Not only did he search me, for 10 minutes, starting at 10 minutes past 12 last week, but yesterday he was telling me and my girlfriend at 12.05 to go back to the warehouse because other colleagues hadn't finished. I informed him that we aren't allowed to leave early, that my shift ends at 12 and I'm officially not getting paid. He told me that we are a team and have to stay until it's finished (this rule apparently doesn't extend to literally any other section). I said I was leaving and he said I couldn't because the door was alarmed and he wasn't opening it. Luckily, he hadn't alarmed it, but his literal positioning point was "I'm keeping you locked in this building until I'm finished".

Now, my girlfriend working today got Let's Talked over it and apparently I'm up next.

I feel it goes without saying, but considering I'm contracted until 12, don't get paid beyond it, and I'd already worked in several other sections after finishing my part of the work...he doesn't have a leg to stand on to actually push this does he?
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

londoner83

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No raise a grievance around terms and conditions.

If you are paid to 12...you are free to leave at 12.

grocerysucks

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That's my thoughts on the matter. It's their job to ensure that everything is being managed and everyone will be finished by the end of working hours. If people aren't finished, then those are the ones who should be getting spoken to.

This guy, who's an existing manager taking over my section, has already been responsible for three notices being handed in since he took over like 4 days ago so I am quite interested in him attempting to discipline me over this. If his Let's Talk is more of a "this is what you are doing wrong" I'll happily not sign it and speak with HR instead.

Equalizer87

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Absolutely not, when your shift is over its over.

I had a manager do the same once and kept us locked in after the Shift was finished. I had to threaten him with calling the Police to get him to let us out.

Sounds like you had the same manager (or at least breed of) as I did.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Peppa17

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Turn it around and do a let's talk meeting on your manager!

lackofinterest

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 :thumbup: good idea

lackofinterest

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go home on time, theres not a thing they can do about it. the rest of "the team" should do the same, if the works not finished maybe they could give drastic a ring. i'm sure he'd come in too help. after all he is probably the root cause of this problem (-*-)

grocerysucks

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My current rule is that if I'm standing at the door for 15 minutes, of which it's been close before, I'm opening the door regardless of the alarm. It's difficult taking these moral stances when you actually rely on the job like I do but it's hard to just let people take these kind of liberties. Surely he knows that we get paid by the hour and he gets paid by salary, so the difference of him staying late Vs other staying late is big?

Even worse actually, just come to think of it, was before I got in this "mood" regarding the company, me and my gf were both in the early stages of setting up pre-options. As a result, we'd try and help out a bit extra at the end of the night. The team leader/on options guy was running that night and an MU out the back had just about fallen over. Everything lopsided and had to get transferred onto another cage. He asked if we could help. We did. As we did this, 3 other managers watched us, not helping. 2 of them left while we were still working. We got out at 12:20.

Even worse is I'm up 6 hours after work ends for college the next morning.

I'm venting all of this now cause I'm in with him tomorrow for this "Let's Talk". I want to get out the random irrelevant aggression so I can properly formulate what it is I'm going to respond with. I'll be clear about finishing work at 12, and I might even let him in on my 15 minutes past rule in the hopes that he's not interested in pursuing further drama. But with the section hemorrhaging employees and the long turnaround for new staff, coming into christmas, they can't afford to lose me, he'll already have a bad light on him, the HR would agree with me and the SM is a fan of mine for some random reason. I'm sort of relishing the opportunity for him to try and throw his weight around.

lackofinterest, yeah the rest of the team, for the most part, don't follow that suit. That's their choice. I've got places to be (bed) and I'm off the clock and no longer being paid so if additional work needs to be done, the white shirts can roll up their sleeves.

spike_pkh

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Wait until he gives you the let's talk. Ask for a copy, then use that as evidence towards grievance.

I am all for a bit of give and take. Store finished early, everyone gets to leave early, store isn't quite completed, everyone stays to help finish. However saying you HAVE to stay is not right.  On my team anyone that doesn't want to stay late doesn't have to, but then they don't get to go early ever.

blutopia

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Throughout the UK, unlawful imprisonment involves:-
custody of a person (or otherwise restriction of that person's general freedom of movement);
and the custody is wilful (i.e. intentional);
either the custody is without legal authority or the custody is reckless (i.e. without justification: without reasonable suspicion)
The courts have interpreted "custody" to include the act of restraining that person by some means (i.e. includes the use of restraints).

Examples of unlawful detention
Obvious examples:-
A person locking you in a room without your consent or by force.
A person grabbing onto you without your consent and continuing to hold you so that you cannot leave (i.e. detaining you by force).

Duracell

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Firstly you are not physically locked in.
Every Fire exit has to open freely.

"You can't leave I've locked the door and alarmed it."

"Doing so detains me against my will with no power to do so is illegal, which makes me feel uncomfortable and I fear for my safety which will lead me to leave by the nearest convenient fire exit, alarmed or not."

Not a very long conversation a simple one.
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

tumshie

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Stick to the facts of what happens now - you always finish on time, you don't leave early or late.

Theres no point bringing in the arrangement with the previous manager, it'll only cause confusion.

theboss

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no your not insured no against T/C END OF

PETE_M

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Start on time - leave on time - clock in and out correctly.

Don't stay behind unless otherwise agreed (and you're getting paid for it or getting time back in lieu)

This manager is being a total ****. Let them try and discipline you in any way, get representation and a copy of the note, then put in a grievance against them.

lackofinterest

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make sure you take a rep or at least a witness to the lets talk meeting. it sounds like this pr**k can't be trusted

mrblobby

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I would take out a grievance under dignity at work. Although you were not prevented from leaving, he implied you were. Give him a polite but firm message that going forward you will be going on time and if he does it again you will raise a grievance.

It could be he was just having a bad day and was stressed so didn't deal with it well
« Last Edit: 13-09-17, 08:03AM by mrblobby »

darklighter

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If he tried that with me I would walk through him, just saying like!
 

Equalizer87

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I would take out a grievance under dignity at work. Although you were not prevented from leaving, he implied you were. Give him a polite but firm message that going forward you will be going on time and if he does it again you will raise a grievance.

It could be he was just having a bad day and was stressed so didn't deal with it well

Having a bad day is not a justified defence. You wouldn't get this sympathy if it was you being stressed out, so why allow this manager the benefit of the doubt??

If your exit from the building is being restricted or denied then you certainly can claim that you were being held against your will. Using a fire exit when not for it's intended purpose will probably breach some part of your contract.

If the Manager wants to stay behind after shift, that's their choice. You should in no way suffer infringement on your personal time because of their decision.

Personally I say hit them with both barrels.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Duracell

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I would take out a grievance under dignity at work. Although you were not prevented from leaving, he implied you were. Give him a polite but firm message that going forward you will be going on time and if he does it again you will raise a grievance.

It could be he was just having a bad day and was stressed so didn't deal with it well

Having a bad day is not a justified defence. You wouldn't get this sympathy if it was you being stressed out, so why allow this manager the benefit of the doubt??

If your exit from the building is being restricted or denied then you certainly can claim that you were being held against your will. Using a fire exit when not for it's intended purpose will probably breach some part of your contract.

If the Manager wants to stay behind after shift, that's their choice. You should in no way suffer infringement on your personal time because of their decision.

Personally I say hit them with both barrels.


Ironicly enough the door the manager has locked is probably a fire exit.
So a person can lock you in a building, detain you against your will, then at the point you exit through the only means available to you because the afformentioned jumped up idiot refuses to unlock usual exit, the notion that when you leave through the fire exit you would some how be in trouble is worrying in the extreme.

Regardless of time if you wish to leave they must let you, stopping you is the first breach of trust it was applied by them. Simples.
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

Equalizer87

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Well to the point that opening the fire door alerts the Fire Brigade and if they attend a false alarm it's a £2,500 fine, so yes I can imagine there would be trouble for opening one needlessly.

Any exits used by staff for  leaving the building after their shift shouldn't be locked at the moment they are leaving.

If you have asked for it to be opened and the Manager (for whatever reason) doesn't, then you are being held in the building against your will.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

JL

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Clock out on the button. If a manager has all the doors locked tell him to open one. If he refuses open one of the fire escapes. Your manager is essentially holding you hostage. The chances are the fire brigade will wave fines in the event an alarm is raised but in the off chance they follow through it'll be no ones fault but your manager. Being drastic is sometimes the only way of dealing with these muppets who alot of the time laugh at the SM and think GAs just clown about. Time records and colleagues leaving should be able to justify why you acted as you did.

adamlad

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Agree with JL, the fine is to the company and is the result of the manager who has caused the negligent act. As long as you warn the manager what you are prepared to do it cant come back on you. You have given the manager chance to let you out the correct way and he has no right to require you to stay in the building after your hours. We had this in our store similar.

Alternatively call the protector line as its illegal to force someone to work outside of their contractual obligations - yours says nothing about working unpaid till the job is done

forrestgimp

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Of course its not ok to force you to stay behind paid or not and I suspect you already know this.

If it happens again phone 101 while the manager is standing there and report it as a crime after all they are keeping you against your will see how loing it takes them to open the  door then.

Oh and why do you care if the alarm goes off?

Duracell

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Well to the point that opening the fire door alerts the Fire Brigade and if they attend a false alarm it's a £2,500 fine, so yes I can imagine there would be trouble for opening one needlessly.

Any exits used by staff for  leaving the building after their shift shouldn't be locked at the moment they are leaving.

If you have asked for it to be opened and the Manager (for whatever reason) doesn't, then you are being held in the building against your will.

I am pretty certain you have been misinformed the opening of a fire door Will not "Call" for the fire service.

You seem to be missing the crucial point, the likelyhood is the exit normally used to leave the building is pretty certain to also be a fire exit route, to lock or block it so exit is impeded is unfortunately ILLEGAL. So in the event the fire service does turn up because you have gone through exited through another door (which is 99% unlikely), who do you think the firefighter with the white helmet on is going to have a problem with.

A.  The person who went through a fire exit because they weren't able and were refused exit by another more suitable route.

B. The Manager that Caused the Obstruction and wilfully locked an exit that in the event of a fire people who were near that exit would be expected and expect to leave via that exit.

Absolute no brainer, really.

If you haven't had the pleasure of a police officer or a chief fire officer on site, who are doing their job with complete autonamy and impunity from the company under law, then you have probably missed a spectacle, believe me a manager who is powerless to intervene or interfere is something to behold because they just can't help themselves.




« Last Edit: 13-09-17, 07:27PM by Duracell »
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.

Duracell

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So to grocerysucks.

Next time your in the area of the door that gets locked, look around see if there are any fire exit route signs leading to the door, if so it is a designated fire route, is so and was submitted under planning application and regulations.

It is illegal to impede exit from that door it MUST open freely for anyone from the inside at ANYTIME.

Simples
« Last Edit: 13-09-17, 07:36PM by Duracell »
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
"Being a rep doesn't make a person right anymore than not being a rep makes a person wrong " 

Duracell.