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23-10-17, 03:34AM

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Author Topic: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?  (Read 4076 times)

optout

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Are there any duties that are currently carried out by senior team that could not be realistically carried out by line-management?

I get the need for a figure head I s'pose but couldn't this be achieved by a satellite store manager OR even the current Regional/group level management?
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JL

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #1 on: 07-08-17, 09:21PM »
All we need is a SM, some shift leaders and GAs no matter the size or complexity of the store.

optout

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #2 on: 07-08-17, 09:26PM »
but what duties does a Store Manager perform that a Line-Manager cannot?
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OvaSees

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #3 on: 07-08-17, 09:46PM »
Given the changes to Team Managers' roles and responsibilities there is no longer a solid enough case for Senior Team. Plus with all the company keeps going on about 'great leadership', 'engagement' and 'inspiring' people why would you therefore want or need an additional layer of management in between that figurehead and the people on the ground? They're just a cost. Been posted before, but looks pretty clear we are moving towards a flat 'generic manager' structure with one leader. The cpmpany has worked this was on Sundays for years, a day on which most stores serve more customers, take more money and are more profitable than Mondays when all the managers spend half the day sat in a meeting.

alf

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #4 on: 07-08-17, 10:33PM »
Tesco have recently began removing PMs, not too long ago they removed the deputy role (not the express role, but for larger stores), so clearly Tesco have no qualms welding the axe on senior team. So if they stay, clearly Tesco have decided there's a reason, whether we the lower plebs agree with that reason is a whole other debate.   

optout

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #5 on: 07-08-17, 11:43PM »
what duties are SMs doing now that LMs aren't? (genuine question, I would just like to know for my own curiosity)? Would especially like to hear from current or past SM of superstores with their honest views on this? They must have been doing something whilst hidden in that office for large parts of the day, so what was it?

I am not trying to stir anything up here, just genuinely curious. :thumbup:

In fact the same goes for PMs also. We (and I) on here have given them a rough ride, but I have yet to hear a SM or PM genuinely defend themselves and give us the reasons why they believe that they deserve the money that they get.

PMs and SMs can't just be sat in their offices most of the day doing nothing, surely?! What are your duties in an average day? :thumbup:
« Last Edit: 07-08-17, 11:49PM by optout »
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madness

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #6 on: 08-08-17, 12:37AM »
The burden of leadership is heavy and it is lonely at the top. Easy to say someone "does nothing all day long" Kinda like saying what the heck does captain picard do all day. He doesn't fire the weapons or t-cut the enterprises hull. But he is needed.

Flatout

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #7 on: 08-08-17, 01:09AM »
I'm a manager, Have no idea what benefits the senior team bring. As for the PM, who only goes onto the shop floor at shift end, either to go home or do some shopping!! Think there will always have to be a SM for legal reasons.

Managers will be next in line for the big cull. Think most managers believe this too. A lot of them hope it happens sooner rather than later.

mrblobby

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #8 on: 08-08-17, 08:55AM »
lets look at this another way - accountability. There has to be someone that can be held
To account for the stores performance that would be the store manager. Can we safely say that a store manager could manage their own duties plus a team that directly report to them of up to 20 odd team managers? Probably not. Some lead roles are pointless but when you look at things like holidays, who would run the store? Etc etc

OvaSees

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #9 on: 08-08-17, 10:37AM »
Why not? That's how most other businesses work, Tesco is simply behind the times. Aldi and Lidl have no problem with accountability and they don't need a layer of management between the SM and department managers to deliver it well. Nor do convenience stores in any retailer.

The burden of leadership is heavy and it is lonely at the top. Easy to say someone "does nothing all day long" Kinda like saying what the heck does captain picard do all day. He doesn't fire the weapons or t-cut the enterprises hull. But he is needed.
He doesn't have an additional incumbent layer of officers between him and his people so it could be argued this is what makes him an effective captain - there's no overlap between roles and responsibilities, military structure is intentional in that regard to eliminate confusion in times of crisis and intense pressure. The burden of leadership is only heavy if you care about the people you lead, another quality of Picard that SMs are devoid of - I never knew Picard to tell somebody to 'think about the cost impact' before asking them to t-cut the hull. And leadership is only lonely when the only company you keep is numbers.

But I wouldn't insult Picard by placing SMs in the same class as him.

stockrotateman

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #10 on: 08-08-17, 10:51AM »
Senior team, cp, pm, all these positions are there to make life easy for the store managers. Who are the highest paid in store and who spend most of there time being invisible.

Chojac2412

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #11 on: 08-08-17, 10:59AM »
I know this will not be the same for most but in my store the senior team take all the duty shifts. A line manager opens and closes but as soon as senior come in they take over the duty, store manager included. Our store manager does Friday late night every week, as duty.
I'm not sure this is the best use of them but it is what the company are asking them to do. I would say we have a better senior team than a line manager team. We have a lot of line managers who have been in same job for 10+ years. They know own job well but they divide the store as they all protect own dept and work against each other. The new store manager is trying to change culture but they are fighting against it. The PM is the weak point in the senior team, has been forced to take duty but not convinced she knows what she is doing. Her days are numbered so a bit of a mute point.
Our fresh food senior team drives trade for whole store and non food drives shrink. They both do the other too but they are the go to people for said tasks. One stands in for store manager when he is on holiday but they are both hands on and work hard.
As the line managers are divided they all seem to have a chip on shoulder. They are not united and all seem to be like children arguing on who has the most late shifts, who seems to get time back, who works late on Sat*rdays etc. So much so that as a colleague it is hard not to be aware. It is not all of them but the few who are not like that have a rough time of it as the others stir things up.
I think that we need to end redundancies for job roles and need to manage people. We need to get rid of the dead wood but I don't know how as a bad store manager will keep the yes men.
I'm my store I would ditch most of the line managers but keep the senior team. They are all new. It feels like they have been brought in to change the culture but that takes time and I think some line managers need to go to ensure it happens.

Chojac2412

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #12 on: 08-08-17, 11:23AM »
The burden of leadership is heavy and it is lonely at the top. Easy to say someone "does nothing all day long" Kinda like saying what the heck does captain picard do all day. He doesn't fire the weapons or t-cut the enterprises hull. But he is needed.

Agree. You only feel stress when you care, beware of anyone who never shows stress. Learning to hide and put on a front is different. It's the ability to care that matters. We all have different jobs to do and we should not judge our store managers on how fast they can work a cage. There is that joke that I can't remember that someone will help me with about which body part is the most important. There are things that need to be done behind close doors. There are wages that need to be funded and reviewed, overtime to be booked and agreed. Routines to be followed and reviewed and then things to be fixed. Audit points to be observed etc. All of which do not involved filling shelves. I'm not saying that is not important as it is. I'm just saying that it's not the only job that needs doing, back to body parts joke.

stockrotateman

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #13 on: 08-08-17, 11:32AM »
Good point, can only go from my own experience. I just think over the years everything manager structure wise in stores, makes the store managers job very easy and many have took advantage of that. A few months back our store manager was seconded to another store and temporary manager came in to run the store, always in early did a few late nights even turned up on a Sunday shift, rumbled, collected baskets from the checkouts, sat with colleagues in the rest room, always available and chatting to staff and customers. :o

Chojac2412

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #14 on: 08-08-17, 11:53AM »
Agree that all managers should mix. No managers tables. No managers mass breaks. Only way to really find out what is going on at grass routes level is to chip in and become part of the team. A good store manager leads by example. My store manager brings in trolleys, goes on a till, fills shelves and takes in a delivery along with splitting cages but he delivers on the behind the scenes tasks too. I think doing duty is part of this too as he is the default person to fix schedules not being done and holiday not being covered by his managers. He has raised the bar for his managers and set the example that they are not so willing to follow

Openandhonest

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #15 on: 08-08-17, 12:48PM »
My SM does trolleys, checkout, rumble, talks too customers etc. But you would have more chance of winning the lottery than getting him to do a night shift. Suppose nights will be no more soon. Don't know when the final ones will close.

Wearethehearts

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #16 on: 08-08-17, 01:01PM »
our sm only comes in before 0930/1000 if he has a reason to leave before his usual 1700 finish. His twighlight is 1200-1930, once in 3 years

Morris999

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #17 on: 08-08-17, 01:02PM »
Chojac, it's good that you have a good senior management that actually not only understood there job role but actually do it!
Unfortunately for the majority of us that isn't the case, and I'd go as far to say the senior team do less than before the management restructure 2 years ago!
I've spoken to many colleagues in many stores and they all say the same, Senior manager refuse to take the Duty Shifts that are part of there job role!
They refuse to work past 17.00, and many do not help with all hands to the pump etc!
Yes I know there are ones that do, but the reality is that most do not!
And what I'd like to see happen is someone over SD level randomly visit/contact stores and ask for the Duty manager!
And then pull the SM apart when they get a Team manager attend!
It's the only way I see that senior team will actually do there roles, as at the moment stores could lose the entire senior management apart from the SM and no-one on the shop floor would notice anything different!


Tornado

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #18 on: 08-08-17, 02:14PM »
There is one think that I think should be created and called 'Inspections Department and Inspectors' which based on information, claims or complains received could act by surprise or anonymous to investigate Stores and verify whether the Rules and Regulations are in practice and to report the results to the responsible departments to take actions. Just my opinion.

Wearethehearts

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #19 on: 09-08-17, 10:11AM »
senior team add more value than most SMs and PMs in my experience and cost less , there you go drastic, a few million more saved each year , bullet the role of SM

stockrotateman

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #20 on: 09-08-17, 11:09AM »
Agree with that.

londoner83

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #21 on: 09-08-17, 11:28AM »
But legally the buck has to stop with one person in store.

Fast forward and i foresee a time with just a Store Manager with 3 or 4  manager type roles and a few shift leaders.

JL

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #22 on: 09-08-17, 11:58AM »
The SM can stay. Just get him/her to do all tasks the ST do and if people are right in what they say it wont be too much to ask. In my store the LM and ST spend much time doing £7-10/hour tasks on what ever they get. Where else would you get as much money for labouring 365 days a year or standing around annoying staff.

Wearethehearts

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #23 on: 12-08-17, 07:30PM »
our SM let slip today , senior team is going in smaller superstores, when pressed about what about larger ones, he changed the conversation

Openandhonest

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Re: Is there a genuine business case for senior team?
« Reply #24 on: 12-08-17, 07:58PM »
Wearethehearts

Hopefully, the pyramid at Tesco is still top heavy. It is about time they focused on the ones making money and not those mopping the floor for minimum pay.

They should have an SM if not a few satellite ones. 2/3 PM in a group tops. Shift Leaders and enough GAs with a balance of FT and PT contracts regardless of the size of store.

The night fill should only be kept in the busiest of stores.